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GregAMD

View 37 ARGB Fan problem

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Hi LCR_1992

Unfortunately, it seems that nobody who's own a TT case with this controller and a X570 Asus MB that works by default. I will keep you informed if I found a solution with my homemade cable. Delivery from China to France is pretty long, I think i will have all the stuff in 30-45 days.

Another thing : I may not be a sofware bug of Aura or Amoury Crate, because the lighning should work even at boot. When we are under UEFI interface, that won't work !

It seems that bios isn't recognize all leds through the controller.

Good idea to contact Asus A simple bios update from asus may resolve the issue, because it works with X470 MB. Asus has probably changed something on Aura on X570 MB

Unplug a fan won't work because on 2 fans cases with this controller, there is a jumper between DI and DO on the first connector. But then, the issue is carry forward on the second fan.

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On 2/15/2020 at 4:19 AM, jujunet said:

One more thing about that : we are not sure if this cable pinout is compatible with our fans. This cable have a four pin RGB, which is 12V RGV not adressable. And we don't know if the cable fans are mounted in series or parallel for RGB lightning.

When I saw my fans working with the MB and rainbow effect, this was wonderful because the color of the three fans were different and move from one to the other like waves. I've never seen that since I have this case (october 2019...). It lasted 5 minutes... That motivate me to build a cable :D

In LEVEL 20 MT : I think the three fans are mounted in series for RGB when MB is under control and parralel when the controller card is driving. On the other case, the three fans would be some clones with the same lightning pattern, like when control with the controller card. That would explain why there is a jumper between DI and DO (Data IN Data out) on connector 1 when there is two fans in the case, like Commander C36.

On the Card we have these notes :

12V : Sure : power supply of fans for spinning

I : I think it's de Information for rotation monitoring -> it would be possible to drive spinning speed from the MB with DC, because there is no PWM. On a fan, here is always 3 cables, 4 when PWM. Minimum is 3 cables : 12V, GND, and Tachometer. Think "I" is Tacho.

5V : Sure : it's power supply of RGB adressable

DO : pretty sure Data out

DI : pretty sure : Data IN

GND : Sure : ground

I order that https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000071997398.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.289d6c37olewL2

So I will solder cables from the connector of Aliexpress and no modification on the case. Just plug the connector fan on it.

Card to control speed with MB https://''/item/4000463360337.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.289d6c37olewL2

PWM cables that I will cut the head (and control cable not used, just 12V, GND and Tacho) : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32957428861.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.289d6c37olewL2

30cm RGB 5V 3 pin (will cut the head) https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32989740896.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.289d6c37olewL2

On first time I will test a fan with external 12V PS and the info cable of the hub to safely confirm that "I" is the tacho Info. After that I will test if I can synchronize one Fan with RGB driving by MB, and two, three...

My wiring diagram :

 

 

 

IMG_3294_2.jpg

 I can't be sure since I haven't gotten any specifics on serial transmit speeds or impedance on the data input, but if the serial data speed is high enough, it might be necessary to terminate the unterminated D(o) line to balance it.  A lot of this is black box to the consumer.  Takes a little bit of reverse engineering to see what is actually going on.  I could give you a definitive answer if I had access to even a cheaper analog oscilloscope (even better with a digital storage scope) to see what the bit rate is on the data lines.  Unfortunately I'm not working at a job that taps my skills right now and therefore have no access to the equipment I'd need.

 

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all looks good. this all aligns with what I've been considering. you just have to run these fans on dc because they arent pwm. I haven't had a chance to hook anything up on the bench though. 

 

whoever gets to it first needs to report their results or findings, the tt community will accomplish what tt won't. 

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2 hours ago, Tech Geek said:

 I can't be sure since I haven't gotten any specifics on serial transmit speeds or impedance on the data input, but if the serial data speed is high enough, it might be necessary to terminate the unterminated D(o) line to balance it.  A lot of this is black box to the consumer.  Takes a little bit of reverse engineering to see what is actually going on.  I could give you a definitive answer if I had access to even a cheaper analog oscilloscope (even better with a digital storage scope) to see what the bit rate is on the data lines.  Unfortunately I'm not working at a job that taps my skills right now and therefore have no access to the equipment I'd need.

 

 

Hi Tech Geek

it might be necessary to terminate the unterminated D(o) line to balance it

It might not, why do you think about that on the controller card, there is an unplug connector marked 5V, DO, GND. I have no cable that fit in this with my case, I found it strange since the start. It may be the output of the last fan on the chain, it may goes to an optional led strip or anything else ? We notice that it's the same format as the input connector MB/in, it may  deliver the same signal like the input signal ? If it's true, the three fans may use directly RGB information from the motherboard, without alteration ?

Closer look on card here https://www.nikktech.com/main/articles/pc-hardware/pc-cases/9941-thermaltake-level-20-mt-argb-mid-tower-review?showall=1

If not, unterminated DO goes where ? To ground ?

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2 hours ago, jujunet said:

 

Hi Tech Geek

it might be necessary to terminate the unterminated D(o) line to balance it

It might not, why do you think about that on the controller card, there is an unplug connector marked 5V, DO, GND. I have no cable that fit in this with my case, I found it strange since the start. It may be the output of the last fan on the chain, it may goes to an optional led strip or anything else ? We notice that it's the same format as the input connector MB/in, it may  deliver the same signal like the input signal ? If it's true, the three fans may use directly RGB information from the motherboard, without alteration ?

Closer look on card here https://www.nikktech.com/main/articles/pc-hardware/pc-cases/9941-thermaltake-level-20-mt-argb-mid-tower-review?showall=1

If not, unterminated DO goes where ? To ground ?

I probed mine here is what I found..

From Fan 1 DO (Data Out) there is continuity (0 ohms) With Fan 2 DI (Data In)

From Fan 2 DO (Data Out) there is continuity (0 ohms) with Fan 3 DI (Data In)

From Fan 3 DO (Data Out) there is continuity (0 ohms) with LED OUT D (Data In)

All of the Ground pins are share the same bus (continuity)

Also on the Ground bus are the "I" pins  AND the "-" on the extra Fan connector (labeled "FAN 4)

NONE of the DO's go to ground.

I hope this helps, let me know what else I can test on my extra controller.

 

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2 hours ago, GregAMD said:

I probed mine here is what I found..

From Fan 1 DO (Data Out) there is continuity (0 ohms) With Fan 2 DI (Data In)

From Fan 2 DO (Data Out) there is continuity (0 ohms) with Fan 3 DI (Data In)

From Fan 3 DO (Data Out) there is continuity (0 ohms) with LED OUT D (Data In)

All of the Ground pins are share the same bus (continuity)

Also on the Ground bus are the "I" pins  AND the "-" on the extra Fan connector (labeled "FAN 4)

NONE of the DO's go to ground.

I hope this helps, let me know what else I can test on my extra controller.

 

Many high speed serial buses are terminated at the end to eliminate signal reflection.  They aren't connected directly to ground.  Depending on speed and the impedance on the data line, you terminate the open (hanging) D(o) with resistor to ground.  In our tools (at my former job) we had a serial bus known as the ITB (Inter Tool Bus) which we terminated with a resistor.  I think it was 150 ohms if I remember correctly.  Typically termination is needed when the transmission line is long, or when data speeds are very high.

 

Edit:  Looking at the back of the PCB hasn't helped much.  The only thing I could make out is that it's got a 24C02 EEPROM (designation U2), but I can't make out any markings on U1 which I presume is a PIC or microcontroller of some type.  I am less than impressed with the quality though.  Looks like they didn't even try and remove the solder flux from around the fan connectors.

 

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Thanks, great informations guys !

It seem that the three fans are really mounted in series for RGB data, and it confirms too that the chain terminate with the Led out connector !

The I pin has been plugged to ground because it's useless. Great luck that these fans are build like all RGB generic fans by same factories in China with other brands and all fans have same pins, then each choose DC+RGB, or proprietary connector. Tacho may be there, but not used !

My cable may work, if not, I will try a 150 ohm resistor between last DO and ground.

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OK, so...... its not the controller board.

or at least not just the controller board.

i just hacked into on of the fans, wired it directly to a connector for 5v, gnd and di on the mobo header (ignored the fan part for testing) purposes.

still only got the first led to light up. synced and all, but...... still just 1 led.

i've given up on these, and moved on.

but i will continue to experiment with the fan and see if i can come up with something for you guys.

untill then, i reccomend you all just go spend about 45 bucks on 3 noctua fans [nf-p12 redux 1700]

and if you want argb spend another $14 on airgoo digital-rgb led strip kit [2xstrips of 21 for a total of 42 leds, daisy chain as many asa you want]

thats what i did, and they look, sound, and work better than the tt fans; plus pwm speed control. grand total 56.59 usd

and, btw, i'll never buy tt products again.... mostly because their total lack of support on this and other topics.

 

links:

https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-redux-1700-high-Performance-Award-Winning-Affordable/dp/B07CG2PGY6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2KTBZFHBQAX5&keywords=nf-p12+redux-1700+pwm&qid=1582067931&sprefix=nf-p12%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-3

 

https://www.amazon.com/Extended-Computer-Magnetic-Digital-RGB/dp/B07DPNNTHJ/ref=pd_bap_rp_3/145-5184626-6275342?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07DPNNTHJ&pd_rd_r=5317e717-4162-4d31-9ef2-c1069e750c5a&pd_rd_w=oQJVS&pd_rd_wg=Wi573&pf_rd_p=a4166a32-d246-48c0-bea1-77c1139b25b4&pf_rd_r=5BVV14QG04DHJ77FHFE7&psc=1&refRID=5BVV14QG04DHJ77FHFE7

 

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So I received the new controller board and the same issue remains.  Only a few of the LEDs on the rear fan illuminate.  I didn't received the ASUS MB to controller cable like I was told, but I'm certain that isn't the issue anyway.  Who knows, it might just be the software.  Is there anyone here that isn't complaining about an ASUS MB in combination with this configuration?  I can't remember anyone saying they had a GigaByte or MSI MB with the same or similar issue.

I do have an open ticket with ASUS which I will pursue further.

 

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I tried something similar to what kromesta did in this thread... 

What I did:

1.  Powered down

2.  Unplugged the argb header connected to the view 37 argb controller

3.  Powered up

4.  Opened Aura

5.  Changed the number of LEDs on the unplugged argb header to 120 (that's what the other one is set to)

6.  Connected the cable back to the MB header

Lo and behold!  All lights up and synced!  Unfortunately it resets as soon as you power down, sleep, etc.  Soooooo close!

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8 hours ago, Bryan Phurrough said:

I tried something similar to what kromesta did in this thread... 

What I did:

1.  Powered down

2.  Unplugged the argb header connected to the view 37 argb controller

3.  Powered up

4.  Opened Aura

5.  Changed the number of LEDs on the unplugged argb header to 120 (that's what the other one is set to)

6.  Connected the cable back to the MB header

Lo and behold!  All lights up and synced!  Unfortunately it resets as soon as you power down, sleep, etc.  Soooooo close!

Building on what you said here:

1.  Once unplugged, the Number of LEDs defaults to 120.

2.  After plugging it back in, as you said it works.

3.  Changing the number in the Number of LEDs field now responds.  ie:  if you enter 9, only the LEDs on Fan 1 (all 9) illuminate, enter 18 and two of the fans work, enter 27 all fans work.

 

So this seems to be a combination of a detection issue and potential an issue with the software not letting you override the value in Number of LEDs.  Seems like this is fixable as it's very obviously a software issue.

 

P.S.  Very good find by the way.  I'll forward this information to ASUS as I have a ticket open for this.

 

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@CplPunishr:

Hi, I'm very surprised, I just made some investigations and i did the same exact thing and that works very well :

I powered off computer, switch off the PSU. Wired a 5V aRGB header to 5V of the third connector fan. Ground to Ground and Data to DI (first picture). The two other fans are still plugged in the TT controller card.

-> I powered ON the computer and in armoury crate, I fixed the color in red to see well, and the first two fans were controlled by the controller card and the last with my MB.

I powered off, switch off the PSU and keep the first wiring, i add : wiring the Data Out of the third fan to Data In of the first fan. Ground Fan3 to ground fan1 and 5V Fan3 to 5V Fan1.

-> I powered ON the computer and the first and the third fans were now controlled by MB and the middle were off (normal, there is no Data in in Fan2 because fan1 is unplug)

-> I changed in armoury crate fix red to rainbow, and, wwwwouuuaaaah, that works !

I'm pretty sure your Aura software had not reset correctly and kept the 1 led setting, or bad detection (loose connection ?). Did you used Aura or Armoury Crate ?

Other thing : I plugged a 12V PSU to 12V pin and ground pin of fan, it spin.

I had nothing on Data Out on the fans when I had one or two fans, and that works.

IMG_20200219_182608470_HDR.jpg

IMG_20200219_182837074.jpg

IMG_20200219_183905642_HDR.jpg

IMG_20200219_184130940.jpg

IMG_20200219_184237577.jpg

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I've checked the connections multiple times and switched from one argb header to another with no change.  I've installed/uninstalled Crate and multiple versions of Sync and the problem persists.  Can you explain how to "reset the Aura software correctly"?

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Hi Bryan.

I was talking about the cplpunishr's problem. He wired directly a fan to a RGB header of the MB and same issue. I did the same with 1 and 2 fans and get it work. My Idea is maybe the software kept the 1 led information like it did when it was plugged on the controller card. With stock config When you unplug the RGB header, aura software change number of leds and when you replug it works until you shut down the computer. At each restart the software may reset itself and detect the led number. It can do a bad detection of led number when MB see the fans through the controller. When I was directly connected it seems to work normally after booting the computer.

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12 hours ago, Tech Geek said:

Building on what you said here:

1.  Once unplugged, the Number of LEDs defaults to 120.

2.  After plugging it back in, as you said it works.

3.  Changing the number in the Number of LEDs field now responds.  ie:  if you enter 9, only the LEDs on Fan 1 (all 9) illuminate, enter 18 and two of the fans work, enter 27 all fans work.

 

So this seems to be a combination of a detection issue and potential an issue with the software not letting you override the value in Number of LEDs.  Seems like this is fixable as it's very obviously a software issue.

 

P.S.  Very good find by the way.  I'll forward this information to ASUS as I have a ticket open for this.

 

In the mean time could we build a simple switch mounted to the back of the case to "unplug" the ARGB header?  Any thoughts on which wire I should put the switch on?  My gut says "Data" AURA seems to be looking for an open circuit on the Data to let the user adjust the LED count...

 

My thought is this:

1) Power down the PC (swtich off PSU)

2) Via a new mini toggle switch I open the Data wire from the ARGB link between the MB and the TT controller.

3) Boot the PC

4) Launch AURA

5) Adjust the number of LEDs from 120 (since it is an open header) to 27

6) and then close the switch.

Would that work?

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31 minutes ago, Bryan Phurrough said:

Got it.  Now my 2nd GPU (on riser) loses sync after a few minutes.  It's fine on startup.  Maybe the cable?  All suggestions welcomed.

My GPU (also on a riser)  also loses AURA sync once in a while... Which is super ironic since it is an ASUS 2080 GPU...

On my system the GPU comes back in to the list of AURA devices once I cycle the reset on the TT ARGB controller.  If that makes sense. 

Discovered this by complete fluke.

There is something weird going on with the AURA software.

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I've found that if I have MSI Afterburner launch with Windows it causes Armoury Crate to not detect my RTX 2060 Super.  I don't know if this is maybe something to do with your losing sync with your graphics card.  To fix this, I just stopped Afterburner from starting with Windows and then launch it after the Aura service starts.  When I discussed this with the ASUS support person, he essentially said for the software to work I should only have Windows and Armoury Crate installed and nothing else.  Might have been a language barrier, but I asked a second time if he was serious about nothing besides Windows and Armoury Crate installed (not just running) and he said "yes".  Like anyone is going to build a $2500 CAD system for flashing a bunch of LEDs and nothing else.  I already knew how to work around it at that point, I was just reporting it to him so he could pass it on to their engineers to look into.  If it was some odd piece of software that no one else ran, I could see their reluctance in investing time into figuring it out, but millions of gamers use MSI Afterburner.

As far as placing a switch inline with one or more of the wires, I'm still not sure how the motherboard / software detects the number of LEDs.  It could be probing for addresses that respond if the data is bi-directional on the data line.  Like "hey is there anyone one at 00, 01, 02, 03, 04,,,,78?" (78 being 120 in hex), but then that doesn't explain why when the cable is unplugged it defaults to 120.  Same goes if it is detecting the current draw on the 5V line as having the connector unplugged would result in essentially 0mA of current.  I'm sort of stymied as to why having the connector unplugged works at all.  I guess you could try the ground line first as it should be the ground for the 5V and a signal reference for the data line, however it may get the ground via the SATA power connector.

For me, I'm satisfied knowing how to work around it for the moment.  I've reported the behavior to ASUS support so they can investigate it and I guess we'll see if they fix it.  I don't shut my computer off or restart it very often.

 

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I'm not sure if the motherboard or software is actually doing any auto-detection.  I just found a tutorial from ASUS explaining the ARGB configuration and how to set it up this is the link:

https://edgeup.asus.com/2019/how-to-get-the-most-out-of-your-rgb-leds-with-aura-sync/

Here is the excerpt from it that addresses how to set it up:

 

Aura Sync treats our light strips’ addressable LEDs as one entity, for the most part. They’re all represented under the “Add Strip” label in the Aura UI. if you drill down in the software, however, you’ll find the headers identified individually. Each header supports up to 120 addressable diodes, and Aura needs to know how many LEDs are on each one to work properly. Configuring our build’s addressable strips in Aura Sync was as simple as navigating to the Addressable Headers section, punching the number of LEDs into the appropriate text box, and then clicking Save.

It says nothing about it detecting it, it clearly says you have to tell it.  So in our case why do we need to have the controller cable unplugged during boot for the software to allow us to adjust (and have it save) the Number of LEDs?

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Well now that I sort of have everything Syncing so to speak, I've been playing with Aura Creator.  Anyone else messing with this?  I don't have any Aura compatible peripherals, but motherboard, RAM, case and graphics card are under Components.  It seems that for now anyway, Creator treats ARGB as RGB meaning they don't make use of the addressable part.  So for now all LEDs switch together.  I have made a Police and Ambulance theme which was very easy.  Essentially switching between red and blue (Police), red and white (Ambulance) in the shortest intervals available.  Looks cool.  I was hoping that I could do a 4 / 5 LED split on each fan and do the same, but for now the software doesn't seem to be that sophisticated.

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Hi,

I used to looking for some system file or reg key with the number led information. My idea were to load a modified file or key automatically with a .bat file at windows loading. But I found nothing about that, no .ini file or something else. Look to regedit and nothing found.

I will go to my solder iron and build my cable and say goodbye to the TT controller. 😄

Switch on RGB cable is a good idea too, but very tedious, you have to manually change led number.

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